NXDOMAIN data needed for survey

[Ray Demain]

We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
contact me at ***@gmail.com.

Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a 10%
recurring finders fee.

Ray

[Martin Hannigan]

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
contact me at

What company would this be for?

-M<

[Steve Atkins]

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
contact me at

What company would this be for?

A domain squatting company, presumably. The same pseudonym has been
trolling web hosting forums to buy the same data today.

He's Marlon Phillips, ***@mapcom.net, I'm pretty sure, though which
particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea.

Cheers,
Steve

[Martin Hannigan]

Post by Steve Atkins

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
contact me at

What company would this be for?

A domain squatting company, presumably.

Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for
others historical reference.

-M<

[Steve Atkins]

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Steve Atkins

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
contact me at

What company would this be for?

A domain squatting company, presumably.

Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for
others historical reference.

Yeah, me too.

He's also apparently Mr Domain Investments LLC, Mr herbalclicks.com,
was typosquatting on a bunch of t-mobile domains until they took them
away from him -
http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2007/d2007-0919.html
- and was sued by Microsoft for sending CAN-SPAM violating spam to
hotmail users a couple of years back in the myauctionbiz.biz case -
http://spamkings.oreilly.com/MSFT-vs-Myauctionbizbiz.pdf .

I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that
someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small
step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling
DNS logs to selling usernames too.

Cheers,
Steve

[Martin Hannigan]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Steve Atkins <***@blighty.com> wrote:

[ snip ]

Post by Steve Atkins
I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that
someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small
step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling
DNS logs to selling usernames too.

This is tip of the iceberg level activity. These people are exploiting
"unique identifiers" i.e. domains names and IP addresses. We need to
fear them, and respond appropriately. They are disruptive to the
Internet, to the users and commerce.


-M<

[Christopher Morrow]

Post by Steve Atkins
particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea.

where does mapcom.net go? bizland.net ... registered through verisign
and hosted at ipowerweb? Their website (www.mapcom.net) has a
sedo-parking park-page, perhaps marlon works for sedoparking?

-Chris

[Paul Vixie]

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business venture.

Post by Ray Demain
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you
provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it.
As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000
records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine
Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a
10% recurring finders fee.

thanks for clarifying my purpose in never collecting NXDOMAIN data in ISC
SIE (see <http://sie.isc.org/>). several folks told me i was out to lunch,
but now i've got <http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg06810.html>
to point at.

[m***@bt.com]

Post by Paul Vixie

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting
business venture.

Doing a Google search with the keywords
pay nxdomain data
turns up some interesting information.

--Michael Dillon

[Tomas L. Byrnes]

What's even more interesting is that googling Ray Demain shows nothing,
except this message.

I'd say that M. Demain does not exist, and his money will be as real as
his on-line presence.

I always love commissions promised from entities whose revenues you
can't audit.

Never mind that the purpose of this is, most likely, to register domains
as link-farms.

I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey

Post by Paul Vixie

Post by Ray Demain
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business venture.

Doing a Google search with the keywords
pay nxdomain data
turns up some interesting information.
--Michael Dillon

[Ross Vandegrift]

Post by Tomas L. Byrnes
BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

If anyone else is interesting in a concerted effort to provide
falsified data, I'm interested in helping and hosting.

[Martin Hannigan]

Post by Tomas L. Byrnes
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

Post by Tomas L. Byrnes
BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

How much are you charging?

-M<

[bill fumerola]

[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Tomas L. Byrnes
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what
our resolvers discover.

at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.

now, on to what we do or could do with that data:

we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner.

they get that data after we've transformed the original request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and
relevant ads.

so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN.
that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.

Post by Martin Hannigan
What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

http://www.opendns.com/privacy/

it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.

-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering

p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless
plug: <***@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.

[Ray Demain]

Bill,

Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded
Paxfire?

www.minorventures.com

OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other,
right?

Ray

Post by bill fumerola
[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]
make

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Tomas L. Byrnes
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing

well.

Post by Martin Hannigan
Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what
our resolvers discover.
at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you
[mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.
we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner.
they get that data after we've transformed the original request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and
relevant ads.
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN.
that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.

Post by Martin Hannigan
What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

http://www.opendns.com/privacy/
it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.
-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering
p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless

[David Ulevitch]

Post by Ray Demain
Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who
funded Paxfire?

It might seem weird to you, but it's very common. Once VC has done the
due diligence in a space they are more likely to invest in another
company doing something in a related space, for better or worse.

Post by Ray Demain
OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other,
right?

Your inference is unfounded.

-David Ulevitch

ps: End of this thread for me. It was dumb to begin with and despite
the flaming, I'm sure a bunch of netops wrote back to the guy offering
to sell NXDOMAIN data. Giving it more airtime is a waste of bits.

[Tomas L. Byrnes]

What's more funny is that googling "Ray Demain" only brings up lots of
posts from you looking for NXDOMAIN data.

What's your real name? Who do YOU work for? Who funds that company?

Before you go accusing others of subterfuge and conspiracy, be up front
about who you are, what you're about, and what you plan on doing with
the data.




________________________________

From: owner-***@merit.edu [mailto:owner-***@merit.edu] On
Behalf Of Ray Demain
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:13 AM
To: ***@merit.edu
Subject: Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey


Bill,

Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group
who funded Paxfire?

www.minorventures.com

OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the
other, right?

Ray




On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill fumerola <***@mu.org>
wrote:



[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]


On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin

Post by Martin Hannigan

Post by Tomas L. Byrnes
I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing

good while doing well.

Post by Martin Hannigan
Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The

problem with

Post by Martin Hannigan
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking,

it was that it's

Post by Martin Hannigan
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community

norms, IMHO. That

Post by Martin Hannigan
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly

doesn't mean it's ok

Post by Martin Hannigan
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one

unknown not to.

Post by Martin Hannigan
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data

creates

Post by Martin Hannigan
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

now that our name has been brought into this, i think
it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's
resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end
result of what
our resolvers discover.

at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page
w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the
record you [mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return
NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix,
etc.

now, on to what we do or could do with that data:

we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do
we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS
company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that
failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising
partner.

they get that data after we've transformed the original
request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return
appropriate and
relevant ads.

so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any
other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew
that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get
NXDOMAIN.
that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our
service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than
i can.

Post by Martin Hannigan
What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not

all of the good

Post by Martin Hannigan
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

http://www.opendns.com/privacy/

it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to
employment.

-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering

p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the
shameless, shameless
plug: <***@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.

[Martin Hannigan]

Post by bill fumerola
[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]

[ snip ]

Post by bill fumerola
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.

I don't think that policy includes derivative works. If you are saying
that you don't sell any data at all, feel free to say that.

-M<

[Scott Weeks]

----------------------------------
[...]the flaming, I'm sure a bunch of netops wrote
back to the guy offering to sell NXDOMAIN data.
----------------------------------


Why would you assume this? That wouldn't be my first assumption after reading the thread. I would assume folks would Do The Right Thing.

scott

[V***@vt.edu]

Post by Scott Weeks
Why would you assume this? That wouldn't be my first assumption after
reading the thread. I would assume folks would Do The Right Thing.

There is no Right Thing that is *so* obviously right that some significant
fraction of the community will refuse to do it anyhow. Witness the flame-fests
we have regarding ingress/egress filtering, BGP prefix filtering/validation,
harboring spammers and other similar low-lifes, and so on...